Jason Lerner

▶0:00HostWelcome to the Built by People podcast, where we share the stories and insights of the world's top HR leaders. Join us as we dive deep into the minds of HR executives, uncovering their strategies, challenges, and triumphs in shaping today's workforce. I'm excited to welcome Jason to the Built by People podcast. Jason, thank you so much for joining us. And as a starting question, I always love to ask if you could share a little bit more about your career journey. Sure.

▶0:50GuestI'd love to talk to you about that. I started out in my career working in sales. A purchase of the company I was working for by another entity took me in a different direction and went into family business for 20 years. We built childcare centers. I built all of our HR functions, took over some of the CFO responsibilities, and then ultimately the sale of the business in 2017. So I have a little bit of an untraditional HR background, but even there I built all the systems, workman's comp, 401 benefits, hiring processes, and made everything digital and ability to do everything well. And then from there, I've worked for different companies over the last 10 years doing either a director of human resources or a vice president of human resources as well.

▶1:36HostThanks for that great introduction, Jason. Can you share a story about a time when you tackled ageism in the workplace and what strategies you found most effective in overcoming it?

▶1:49GuestYeah, I saw that I was working in a position where I was hiring people.. And I saw that the hiring managers were looking for, say, 15 years of experience, and I challenged them on why they were looking for the 15 years of experience. And they were explaining that they didn't feel people who had less than that knew the industry well enough. And I kind of used myself as an example. I was new to the industry, so I had to learn how to operate within that industry and also learn that industry. And I myself felt someone who had 5 to 7 years would be able to do that job in a legitimate way. And I had to convince the stakeholders, senior vice president for operations and two of the regional directors. They let me hire a couple of people that had that 5 to 7 years experience versus 15. And I was able to change it. And I know it's not ageism on the older side. This was ageism on less seasoned workers, I'll say. But the same type of thing happens on the other side as well. I've seen it where they just discounted somebody as being over— for the same age as them, they say overqualified. And it's a term I don't like to hear. I think at the stage in the career that I am, people have experiences. They might be looking for something different, a little less responsibility in their role, and that's why they're looking. So I think it's better to ask the person why they're looking for the role. And I had that recently happen to me. Someone asked me, why are you applying to this role? And I walked through. You know, what I was looking for. And it was an idea and an ability to handle the ageism question in a professional way.

▶3:20HostJason, can you tell me about a panel discussion or a conversation you've had where differing opinions led to a heated debate? How did you navigate that situation and what did you learn from it?

▶3:34GuestThis is good. This happened a couple weeks ago. We were doing a panel discussion. I help with a transition group for people who are out of work looking for a position.. And we had a panel discussion. All of these people that we were talking to were not human resources related. So we had a panel of 5 of us who all have an HR background to talk to the people and give them a look behind the curtain as to what goes on the hiring side. One thing I've learned is when you get human resources people together, everybody has a different opinion. And someone asked a question and all 5 of us had a different take on it. And it was pretty interesting. And these are people I've known for a few years and we respect each other, but it got pretty heated. And then I took a step back and I said, okay, I said, this is a— let's take this offline. We all disagree on it. I said, why don't we take the time, each of us can formulate a response and we can put together answers to give to the group so that they don't have to, and we can move on to the next topic. And we had a recap call after the webinar and all 5 of us were like, all right, we got heated because all of us were in the same position, but we see it from a different angle. And actually the feedback from the group was that they liked to hear different sides of it. The moderator who was the head of the group said to us, this was a good conversation. It got a little heated. People got to see, you know, behind the curtain, see what people see in different things. So it was actually a positive, but it took a few minutes after the call to get everybody back to a level set playing field. But we never lost the professional respect for each other.

▶5:06HostJason, reflecting on your recent experience of helping individuals in career transitions, can you provide some real-world examples of how you've advised candidates to determine cultural fit with potential employers?

▶5:20GuestYeah, I will tell you one of my big things with people, and I tell anybody that I'm speaking to and helping with transition, I tell them, the company's interviewing you, but as much as they're interviewing you, you need to interview the company. And I like to tell people like, here's what you do. You want to, you, you're talking to the HR, when you get to the next round, make sure they're allowing you to talk to people who aren't just in the department that you're reporting to. Talk to other people in the company to understand what their perspective is, because you'll learn very quickly how the different departments work with each other, and that'll give you a very good idea of what the culture is at the company. And you'll see how there's cues you can listen for that people will say things that you can tell, like they may not like working for that department or they really do like working for it. And they don't have to say it to you, but you'll understand if people enjoy their workspace. And with that, when you go to an in-person interview, when you're talking to the receptionist, you see how people greet you when you come in the door. And as you walk through the office, if people are friendly, that's a good sign that people actually like where they're working as well.

▶6:21HostJason, what parting advice would you like to share with our community?

▶6:25GuestI think people need to understand that it's difficult out there right now for people that are searching for positions. I think you need to stay positive. What I say is limit your time that you're on the computer. Don't spend the entire day on the computer searching LinkedIn, searching Indeed, or wherever you're looking. Take those breaks, go for a walk, do something that you enjoy to give yourself a break. Keep your head up, do things that you like. Your job doesn't define you. You're a person outside of your work. And I know it's hard to get your head around that when you're in that position, but I think it's something that allows you to move forward and keep your confidence up while you are searching as well.

▶7:02HostJason, thanks so much for joining us on the Built by People podcast. It was a pleasure to have you involved.

▶7:06GuestThank you so much. I appreciate it.