Jason Lerner
VP Human Resources
VDA Elevator and Escalator Consulting
Episode 192
Don't Just Apply: Interview the Company for True Cultural Fit
Current chapter: Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built By PeopleMay 13, 2025 · 7:08
Thesis
“Effective HR leadership requires challenging conventional wisdom in hiring, fostering respectful dialogue among professionals, and empowering individuals to prioritize self-worth while navigating career transitions and cultural fit.”
Show notes
Navigating Career Transitions and Combating Ageism: Insights from Jason Lerner
In this episode of the Built by People Podcast, the host welcomes Jason, who shares his unique career journey from sales and family business to human resources leadership.
Jason discusses his non-traditional HR background and his experience in implementing HR systems. He also addresses ageism in the workplace, providing strategies to overcome biases against less seasoned and more experienced workers.
Jason shares a story about handling differing opinions during a heated panel discussion and offers advice on helping candidates assess cultural fit with potential employers.
He concludes with parting advice for job seekers on maintaining positivity during career transitions.
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:51 Jason's Career Journey
01:37 Tackling Ageism in the Workplace
03:20 Navigating Heated Debates
05:06 Advising on Cultural Fit
06:25 Parting Advice for Job Seekers
07:01 Closing Remarks
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What you'll take away
- 1Challenge rigid experience requirements in hiring to avoid ageism and broaden your talent pool; consider candidates with less experience who can grow into the role.
- 2When encountering candidates deemed 'overqualified,' initiate a conversation to understand their motivations and career goals rather than making assumptions.
- 3Advise job candidates to 'interview the company' by speaking with employees across different departments and observing workplace interactions to gauge cultural fit.
- 4For individuals in career transition, emphasize the importance of mental well-being: limit job search time, take breaks, and remember that self-worth is not defined by employment status.
- 5In professional debates with differing opinions, propose taking the discussion offline to formulate a unified, respectful response, which can be perceived positively by an audience.
What most organizations get wrong
- •He challenges the assumption that 15 years of experience is always necessary for a role, advocating for candidates with less experience who can adapt and learn.
- •He pushes back against the term 'overqualified,' suggesting it's better to understand why experienced individuals might seek roles with different responsibilities.
- •He posits that a heated debate among HR professionals, when managed professionally, can actually be a positive for an audience, showing diverse perspectives rather than being purely negative.
In Jason's words
“I saw that the hiring managers were looking for, say, 15 years of experience, and I challenged them on why they were looking for the 15 years of experience.”
Highlights his proactive approach to addressing ageism and rigid requirements in hiring practices.
“And it's a term I don't like to hear. I think at the stage in the career that I am, people have experiences. They might be looking for something different, a little less responsibility in their role, and that's why they're looking.”
Offers a nuanced perspective on 'overqualified' candidates, advocating for understanding individual motivations.
“One thing I've learned is when you get human resources people together, everybody has a different opinion. And someone asked a question and all 5 of us had a different take on it.”
Illustrates the diversity of thought among HR professionals and the challenge of managing those differences.
“I tell them the company's interviewing you, but as much as they're interviewing you, you need to interview the company.”
Emphasizes the candidate's agency in the hiring process and the critical importance of assessing cultural fit.
“As you walk through the office, if people are friendly, that's a good sign that people actually like where they're working as well.”
Provides a practical, observable cue for job seekers to gauge genuine company culture.
“Your job doesn't define you. You're a person outside of your work.”
Offers critical advice for maintaining self-worth and positivity during difficult job searches.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Hiring managers adhering to overly rigid experience requirements, potentially overlooking suitable candidates and contributing to ageism.
- •Misinterpreting highly experienced candidates as 'overqualified,' leading to missed opportunities to hire valuable talent without understanding their career aspirations.
- •Job seekers struggling to discern genuine cultural fit during the interview process, increasing the risk of mismatched placements.
- •The emotional and psychological toll of prolonged job searches, impacting candidates' confidence and overall well-being.
- •Managing diverse and sometimes conflicting opinions within HR teams during discussions, which can escalate into heated debates if not skillfully navigated.
In this episode
Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built by People
Jason Miller shares a little bit more about his career journey
In the Elevator With HR Executives
Can you share a time when you tackled ageism in the workplace
How to Deal with Ageism in the Workplace
When you get human resources people together, everybody has a different opinion
A Human Resources Panel Discussion Gets Hot...
Jason Miller advises candidates on how to determine cultural fit with potential employers
Culture Fit in the Company
Jason, what parting advice would you like to share with our community
A Moment of Advice for Job Seekers
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
Full transcript
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