Jackie Dube
Chief People Officer
The Predictive Index
Episode 197
Master Culture & Hiring: Data-Driven Intuition for Peak Organizational Performance
Current chapter: Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built By PeopleMay 9, 2025 · 8:16
Thesis
“Leveraging behavioral science and data, alongside intuition, is fundamental for intentionally building strong organizational cultures, making impactful hiring and leadership decisions, and fostering trust through clarity, ultimately leading to superior business outcomes and employee engagement.”
Show notes
The Predictive Index exists because behavioral science can tell you things about a candidate that a strong interview process simply can't. Jackie Dube knows this firsthand — she used PI at a startup before she ever joined the company, and she credits it with helping build one of the best early teams she's been part of.
Now CPO at The Predictive Index, Jackie is one of the clearest voices in the podcast on a specific hiring problem that most organizations gloss over: the sales leadership gap. When you rely entirely on interview rapport to evaluate sales candidates, you miss the behavioral drivers — the dominance, the competitive intensity, the willingness to push — that actually predict sales success. Behavioral data surfaces what relationship-building in an interview room typically obscures. Her approach to transitioning organizations toward skills-based hiring is equally methodical: start with leadership self-awareness exercises, run a small controlled pilot, demonstrate the outcomes, then expand. Behavioral change requires proof, not proclamation.
The other thread in this conversation is generational tension in the workplace — not through the typical generational-difference lens, but through a more practical one: individual feedback preferences. Some people want real-time, direct feedback. Others want structured, scheduled conversations. A feedback charter that maps individual preferences prevents the miscommunication that most organizations chalk up to generational differences. Her closing line is one to remember: in times of uncertainty, clarity is kindness. The leaders who are transparent when others aren't are the ones who earn lasting trust.
- Behavioral data in hiring — what PI reveals about candidates that interview rapport consistently misses, especially for sales leadership roles
- Transitioning to skills-based hiring — building leadership trust through self-awareness before launching any pilot, then scaling on evidence
- Feedback charters for generational tensions — mapping individual preferences (timely vs. structured) to prevent communication mismatches
- Intentional culture building from day one — why the best time to hire a strategic HR leader is earlier than almost any founder thinks
- Radical clarity as kindness — how transparency during organizational uncertainty becomes a durable source of employee trust
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What you'll take away
- 1Prioritize strategic HR early in a company's lifecycle to intentionally build culture and set a foundation for growth.
- 2Combine behavioral data with interview intuition to make more informed hiring decisions, especially for critical roles like sales leadership, uncovering hidden drives beyond surface-level rapport.
- 3Successfully transition to a skills-based hiring model by gaining leadership trust through self-awareness exercises and demonstrating positive outcomes with small, controlled pilots.
- 4Bridge generational workplace tensions by establishing clear feedback charters based on individual preferences (e.g., timely vs. structured) to maximize performance and understanding.
- 5In times of uncertainty, leadership must practice radical clarity and transparency as a form of kindness to foster employee trust and engagement.
What most organizations get wrong
- •Hiring strategic HR as one of the first employees in a startup, even before significant headcount, challenges the typical 'hire revenue-generating first' mentality.
- •Relying solely on relationship-building in sales interviews is insufficient; behavioral data is critical to assess a candidate's ability to drive decisions and handle conflict, pushing back on traditional sales hiring biases.
In Jackie's words
“He is like, I'm gonna hire someone in strategic HR first. And he had to convince these two 26-year-old bootstrap founders that he was gonna hire someone in HR when they, really didn't have any employees.”
Illustrates a counter-intuitive but ultimately successful early investment in strategic HR for foundational company building.
“At that time, Mike had used a tool called the Predictive Index, which is where I work now, to really help intentionally build that culture and team. It's just a tool that's guided my career ever since.”
Highlights the transformative impact of a specific HR tool on both personal career trajectory and organizational culture development.
“And if you just rely on the relationship building in the interview process, you tend to overlook some of the critical things that make a successful sales leader successful.”
Emphasizes the limitations of traditional interview methods and the need for deeper data-driven insights in hiring.
“But I do believe that your leadership has to believe in a tool or in a science or in any process that you're driving to change. The way that it worked for me is I was able to— and I'll say this as an organization... when I took it with me elsewhere, it's really about getting leadership to trust the tool that you're using.”
Underscores the absolute necessity of leadership buy-in and trust for successfully implementing new HR strategies and tools.
“We set up processes to encourage feedback sessions and one-on-ones, and every employee should have a one-on-one every other week at least. But really getting teams to put charters together around how people like to receive feedback.”
Provides a practical, actionable strategy for resolving generational tensions around feedback preferences through personalized charters.
“Clarity and transparency is kindness, and that's what employees are looking for... They trust you more, and they're more engaged. So clarity is kindness would be my parting advice.”
Offers a concise and powerful philosophy for leadership communication, linking transparency directly to trust and engagement.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Organizations struggle to change established company culture, especially post-acquisition or after significant growth, without early strategic HR intervention.
- •Companies risk making sub-optimal hiring decisions, particularly for sales and leadership roles, by relying too heavily on superficial interview rapport and overlooking critical behavioral drives.
- •Implementing new HR methodologies, like skills-based hiring or adopting new HR tech, faces significant roadblocks without strong leadership buy-in and trust in the chosen tools/science.
- •Generational differences in workplace expectations, specifically regarding feedback frequency and style, create tension and hinder effective communication within teams.
- •Employee disengagement and distrust increase in uncertain economic times when organizations lack transparency and clarity about strategy and future outlook.
In this episode
Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built by People
Jackie Johnson is the Chief People Officer at PI.Always love talking about people-related topics
How to Build a Culture of People
Using behavioral data can help you make critical hiring or leadership decisions
How Hiring Analytics Helped Shape the Company's Future
Jackie says behavioral assessments helped an organization transition from traditional hiring methods
How to Transition From Hiring to Skills-based Assessment
Cultural or generational tensions can arise in the workplace when giving feedback
How to Bridge Cultural Differences in the Workplace
Jackie says clarity and transparency are what employees are looking for
A Few Words of Clarity for Companies
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
Full transcript
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