Jackie Dube
Chief People Officer
The Predictive Index
Episode 197
Master Culture & Hiring: Data-Driven Intuition for Peak Organizational Performance
Current chapter: Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built By PeopleMay 9, 2025 · 8:16
Thesis
“Leveraging behavioral science and data, alongside intuition, is fundamental for intentionally building strong organizational cultures, making impactful hiring and leadership decisions, and fostering trust through clarity, ultimately leading to superior business outcomes and employee engagement.”
Show notes
Driving Strategic HR with Behavioral Data: Insights from Jackie DubeIn this episode of the Built by People Podcast, the host welcomes Jackie, an HR expert with extensive experience in multiple industries, including startup technology.
Jackie shares her career journey, the importance of behavioral data in hiring and leadership decisions, and the transition from traditional hiring to skills-based models.
She also discusses managing generational tensions in the workplace and emphasizes the need for clarity and transparency in organizational strategies. The conversation offers valuable insights into effective HR practices and leadership.
00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Jackie
00:14 Jackie's Career Journey
00:55 Joining Shape Up and Predictive Index
02:37 Using Behavioral Data in Hiring
04:12 Transitioning to a Skills-Based Model
05:37 Addressing Generational Tensions
06:49 Parting Advice and Conclusion
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What you'll take away
- 1Prioritize strategic HR early in a company's lifecycle to intentionally build culture and set a foundation for growth.
- 2Combine behavioral data with interview intuition to make more informed hiring decisions, especially for critical roles like sales leadership, uncovering hidden drives beyond surface-level rapport.
- 3Successfully transition to a skills-based hiring model by gaining leadership trust through self-awareness exercises and demonstrating positive outcomes with small, controlled pilots.
- 4Bridge generational workplace tensions by establishing clear feedback charters based on individual preferences (e.g., timely vs. structured) to maximize performance and understanding.
- 5In times of uncertainty, leadership must practice radical clarity and transparency as a form of kindness to foster employee trust and engagement.
What most organizations get wrong
- •Hiring strategic HR as one of the first employees in a startup, even before significant headcount, challenges the typical 'hire revenue-generating first' mentality.
- •Relying solely on relationship-building in sales interviews is insufficient; behavioral data is critical to assess a candidate's ability to drive decisions and handle conflict, pushing back on traditional sales hiring biases.
In Jackie's words
“He is like, I'm gonna hire someone in strategic HR first. And he had to convince these two 26-year-old bootstrap founders that he was gonna hire someone in HR when they, really didn't have any employees.”
Illustrates a counter-intuitive but ultimately successful early investment in strategic HR for foundational company building.
“At that time, Mike had used a tool called the Predictive Index, which is where I work now, to really help intentionally build that culture and team. It's just a tool that's guided my career ever since.”
Highlights the transformative impact of a specific HR tool on both personal career trajectory and organizational culture development.
“And if you just rely on the relationship building in the interview process, you tend to overlook some of the critical things that make a successful sales leader successful.”
Emphasizes the limitations of traditional interview methods and the need for deeper data-driven insights in hiring.
“But I do believe that your leadership has to believe in a tool or in a science or in any process that you're driving to change. The way that it worked for me is I was able to— and I'll say this as an organization... when I took it with me elsewhere, it's really about getting leadership to trust the tool that you're using.”
Underscores the absolute necessity of leadership buy-in and trust for successfully implementing new HR strategies and tools.
“We set up processes to encourage feedback sessions and one-on-ones, and every employee should have a one-on-one every other week at least. But really getting teams to put charters together around how people like to receive feedback.”
Provides a practical, actionable strategy for resolving generational tensions around feedback preferences through personalized charters.
“Clarity and transparency is kindness, and that's what employees are looking for... They trust you more, and they're more engaged. So clarity is kindness would be my parting advice.”
Offers a concise and powerful philosophy for leadership communication, linking transparency directly to trust and engagement.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Organizations struggle to change established company culture, especially post-acquisition or after significant growth, without early strategic HR intervention.
- •Companies risk making sub-optimal hiring decisions, particularly for sales and leadership roles, by relying too heavily on superficial interview rapport and overlooking critical behavioral drives.
- •Implementing new HR methodologies, like skills-based hiring or adopting new HR tech, faces significant roadblocks without strong leadership buy-in and trust in the chosen tools/science.
- •Generational differences in workplace expectations, specifically regarding feedback frequency and style, create tension and hinder effective communication within teams.
- •Employee disengagement and distrust increase in uncertain economic times when organizations lack transparency and clarity about strategy and future outlook.
In this episode
Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built by People
Jackie Johnson is the Chief People Officer at PI.Always love talking about people-related topics
How to Build a Culture of People
Using behavioral data can help you make critical hiring or leadership decisions
How Hiring Analytics Helped Shape the Company's Future
Jackie says behavioral assessments helped an organization transition from traditional hiring methods
How to Transition From Hiring to Skills-based Assessment
Cultural or generational tensions can arise in the workplace when giving feedback
How to Bridge Cultural Differences in the Workplace
Jackie says clarity and transparency are what employees are looking for
A Few Words of Clarity for Companies
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
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