Eileen Cooke
Chief Learning Officer
Amtrak
Episode 209
Stop Training, Start Performing: Why L&D Must Drive Business Outcomes
Current chapter: Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built By PeopleMay 1, 2025 · 12:15
Thesis
“The sole purpose of corporate training and learning & development is to equip the workforce with the knowledge and skills needed to do their job, and its success must be measured by post-training performance outcomes and business results, not just the training event itself.”
Show notes
Corporate training teams often measure themselves by the wrong things — attendance rates, curriculum completion, post-event satisfaction scores. Eileen Cooke, Chief Learning Officer at Amtrak, has a different metric in mind: did the trained workforce actually perform better? If L&D can't answer that question with data, it's operating on faith.
Eileen's philosophy is deceptively simple: the only reason a corporate training function exists is to equip the workforce with the knowledge and skills to do their jobs. Everything else — the design, the delivery, the technology — is in service of that single purpose. At Amtrak, that means managing high-volume training for a complex, safety-critical workforce while staying relentlessly focused on post-training performance outcomes, not just the training event itself. She's built programs around a circular approach — instruction, observation, guided practice, reinforcement — that mirrors how adults actually learn rather than how it's easiest to teach.
Her message to L&D practitioners is equally clear: you are a business person first, who happens to specialize in learning. That means sitting across from business leaders and speaking their language — KPIs, revenue impact, risk reduction — rather than asking for a training mandate and disappearing to build a course. Accountability for business results isn't a burden to fear; it's what separates learning organizations that matter from those that get cut in the next budget cycle.
- Reframing L&D's purpose — why training events are inputs, not outcomes, and how to measure what actually matters
- The circular learning model — instruction, observation, guided practice, and reinforcement in practice
- Having business conversations as an L&D leader — how to frame training discussions in terms of KPIs and outcomes
- Building a business-acumen mindset in training teams — why L&D practitioners must challenge requests, not just fulfill them
- Owning accountability for results — why L&D should be held to post-training performance metrics and how to get access to the data
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What you'll take away
- 1L&D's primary purpose is to enable job performance, not just conduct training events. Metrics must reflect post-training job outcomes.
- 2Effective training involves a circular approach: instruction, observation, guided practice, and continuous reinforcement, ensuring nothing is left behind.
- 3L&D leaders must frame training discussions with business leaders in terms of business outcomes and KPIs, not just training activities.
- 4Training teams need strong business acumen to challenge requests and ensure realistic alignment with desired results.
- 5Overcome fear of accountability for business results; L&D's impact is measured by the trained workforce's performance, requiring access to business data.
What most organizations get wrong
- •Very often we get caught up in the training event itself... And we forget that the reason we are here is for the work. It's about the performance of people after the training event.
- •There is a fear of our learning practitioners of being measured by the business results or outcomes or even the KPIs... but we have to let go of it. We have to let go of it.
In Eileen's words
“The only reason that a corporate training or learning and development team exists is to equip the workforce with the knowledge and skills they need to do their job, period.”
This statement clearly defines her core philosophy on the purpose of L&D, shifting focus from activity to outcome.
“You can practice things the wrong way, and then you're not going to do great work. So in this particular example, as we reimagine— we didn't reimagine what they had to do on the job. That's decided by others. But the way we brought them through that and made sure that they practice it correctly over and over again, nothing was ever left behind.”
This highlights the critical importance of guided practice and a structured learning journey to ensure correct skill acquisition and prevent negative habit formation.
“The best way to have a conversation with a business leader about the training you're going to do for her or his business is to talk about the business outcomes. You start there. You don't start with the training and, oh, maybe we'll do an e-learning. No, you start with the business and the key performance indicators, the metrics.”
This provides actionable advice for L&D professionals on how to strategically engage with business leaders, ensuring L&D initiatives are aligned with core business objectives.
“First and foremost, we're business people. We work in a corporation. We happen to, our craft or our trade or our contribution happens to be learning development and training, but you are a businessman or woman. You're working in a business. Understand the business.”
Emphasizes the crucial need for L&D professionals to possess business acumen and frame their work within a broader organizational context.
“It's almost like saying a salesperson shouldn't be held accountable for a sale. They can't control what a prospect does, but they're held accountable for the end result, which is a sale or not. So it is breaking with that fear of being held accountable for the performance of the people that you trained.”
A powerful analogy that challenges L&D professionals to embrace accountability for the performance impact of their training, similar to how sales roles are measured.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Corporate training often focuses on the 'training event' (attendance, curriculum) rather than post-training performance outcomes, leading to a lack of measurable impact.
- •High-volume workforce training can become a 'check-the-box' compliance exercise, failing to ensure genuine skill transfer and practical application.
- •L&D practitioners can be intimidated by business conversations, leading them to passively accept training mandates without critically assessing needs or aligning with business goals.
- •Business leaders may lack a clear understanding of the root causes of performance issues, requesting 'grand trainings' that fail to address underlying problems.
- •L&D professionals fear being held accountable for business metrics because they feel they don't directly control the workforce's performance, hindering objective program evaluation.
- •Lack of access to post-training performance data prevents L&D teams from improving programs, identifying lead measures, or intervening with underperforming groups.
In this episode
Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built by People
How do you see learning and development evolving in today's corporate environment
The role of learning and development in the workplace
Eileen says her company used circular learning to improve employee performance
In the Elevator: Learning and Development
Having trade-off conversations with leaders regarding training expectations can be difficult
The Training Trade-off
Training departments face challenges in ensuring that learning translates into performance
The Challenges of Learning Transfer into Performance
Eileen says learning and development is the best role on the planet
Aileen Miller's last message
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
Full transcript
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