Christen Cole
Leadership Development Function Leader
Growing family-owned company
Episode 270
Outcomes, Not Hours: The Philosophy Transforming Business Performance
Current chapter: Covering monthly expenses is the number one concern for employees in 2024
Built By PeopleMarch 19, 2025 · 9:31
Thesis
“To achieve strong business results and a healthy, engaged workforce, organizations must adopt a philosophy centered on clear outcomes, true accountability, employee autonomy, and deep trust, moving beyond arbitrary rules and 'butts-in-seats' mentalities.”
Show notes
Christen Cole will argue with you that every job can be measured. And she has, many times — with leaders who insist their roles are inherently immeasurable and accountability frameworks don't apply to them. She's still undefeated on that point.
Her weapon of choice is ROWE — the Results-Only Work Environment philosophy she helped implement at Best Buy. But ROWE is frequently misunderstood as a flexible work program. Christen's correction: it's a workplace philosophy built on five pillars — clarity of outcomes, appropriate measurement, true accountability, autonomy, and trust. The most common reason ROWE initiatives stall isn't employee resistance. It's leadership. Specifically: leaders who know how to manage people (observe them, track their presence, monitor their activity) but have never learned to manage work (define outcomes, set expectations, evaluate results). Watching someone sit at a desk is not the same as knowing whether they're performing. That conflation is the root of most "can't go remote / must return to office" arguments.
She's equally precise on the accountability-autonomy balance. Too much autonomy without accountability produces chaos. Too much accountability without autonomy produces burnout, complacency, and churn. A healthy culture requires both to be present simultaneously — and the feedback loops to correct the balance when it drifts. Her parting shot at "Minnesota nice" culture is memorable: excessive politeness in the workplace is sweeping things under the rug, and that's the fastest path to a culture of mistrust.
What you'll learn:
- The five core tenets of ROWE — and why it's a philosophy, not a flexible work program
- Why leaders who manage people (not work) are the biggest obstacle to outcomes-based cultures
- How to respond to "my job can't be measured" — and why every role has quantifiable outcomes
- The autonomy-accountability balance: what happens when each is out of proportion
- Five practices for building a genuinely healthy workplace culture, from goal clarity to real-time feedback
- Why "Minnesota nice" (excessive politeness) creates cultures of mistrust and disengagement
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What you'll take away
- 1Results-Only Work Environment (ROE) is a philosophy focusing on clarity, measurable outcomes, accountability, autonomy, and trust, not merely a flexible work program.
- 2Organizations often struggle to shift from 'butts-in-seats' to outcomes-based approaches due to unclear communication, leaders managing people instead of work, and reluctance to relinquish command-and-control.
- 3A productive culture requires a critical balance between employee autonomy and accountability; too much of one without the other leads to chaos or complacency.
- 4For a healthy workplace culture, clearly define and ensure understanding of goals and metrics, empower employees to own their work, trust them, communicate clearly for course correction, and provide regular, respectful feedback, addressing performance issues promptly.
- 5Every job has measurable outcomes; leaders must challenge the notion that some roles cannot be quantified, as this underpins accountability and purpose.
What most organizations get wrong
- •"Yes, every job can be measured. I will fight that fight all the time." (2:10) — Challenges the common belief that certain roles are inherently immeasurable.
- •"Many leaders especially know how to manage people, not work." (4:03) — Pushes back against traditional leadership styles that prioritize physical presence and observation over actual results.
- •"Here in Minnesota, we have this phrase about Minnesota nice, and that has no place in the workplace." (9:00) — Contradicts the idea that excessive politeness is always beneficial, advocating for direct, honest feedback to foster trust.
In Christen's words
“ROE really is a workplace philosophy... It focuses on a few main tenets of Clarity and appropriate measurement of outcomes. And yes, every job can be measured. I will fight that fight all the time. True accountability, autonomy for everyone, and trust.”
This quote concisely defines the core principles of ROE and highlights the guest's strong stance on measuring all jobs.
“Many leaders especially know how to manage people, not work. So they would think that if they saw somebody sitting at their desk and they could watch them and just observe them or knew where they were physically, it meant that they were managing them, but they weren't paying any attention necessarily to the results they're getting.”
This illustrates a critical challenge in shifting to outcomes-based work, where leaders cling to outdated supervision methods.
“If there's too much autonomy and not enough accountability, it's like chaos and poor performance... On the flip side, if there's too much accountability, but employees have no autonomy, it's that command and control kind of environment where people burn out or they leave, or even worse, they become really complacent.”
This quote succinctly explains the delicate balance required between autonomy and accountability for a healthy and productive environment.
“If you wanna have a truly healthy workplace culture, you must do at least these 5 things... One being that you need to clearly define and ensure complete understanding of goals, outcomes, and metrics for all roles. And yes, Every single job can't— I've had a lot of those discussions with people who say, I can't really measure what I do. And then I say, then why do you have a job?”
This provides actionable advice for building a healthy culture, reinforcing her stance on measurable outcomes for every role.
“Here in Minnesota, we have this phrase about Minnesota nice, and that has no place in the workplace. That's sweeping things under the rug, pretending everything's okay. You're actually doing a disservice to employees and creating a culture of mistrust and disengagement if people aren't truly clear on what is expected of them and how they contribute.”
This quote challenges a cultural norm, emphasizing the importance of direct and honest feedback for building trust and engagement.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Organizations struggle to transition from traditional 'butts-in-seats' work models to outcomes-based environments, leading to inefficient processes.
- •Leaders often manage employee presence rather than focusing on their actual work results, hindering true accountability and performance.
- •Poor communication and unclear expectations between management and employees result in misunderstandings, missed goals, and reduced productivity.
- •Resistance from leaders to relinquish control and trust their employees stifles autonomy, leading to burnout or complacency.
- •Employees in command-and-control environments experience low engagement and high turnover due to a lack of agency.
- •Failure to provide regular, respectful feedback and address performance issues promptly creates cultures of mistrust and disengagement.
- •Employees often don't connect their daily activities to higher-level organizational outcomes, leading to a focus on tasks rather than impact.
In this episode
Covering monthly expenses is the number one concern for employees in 2024
Built by People
The thing I'm most passionate about in HR is good leadership
What Makes a Human Resources Leader So Special?
You were instrumental in implementing results-only work environment at Best Buy
Best Buy's ROE Workplace
ROWE helped organizations shift from a focus on results to an outcomes-based approach
What were the biggest challenges organizations faced when trying to shift away from
It's critical that both autonomy and accountability coexist in a productive workplace
The Relationship Between Employee Accountability and Autonomy
Kristen says a good workplace culture makes people happier in life
Workplace Culture: Empowerment
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
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