Brett Beal

▶0:00IntroWelcome to the Built by People Podcast, where we share the stories and insights of the world's top executive leaders. Join us as we dive deep into the minds of executives, uncovering their strategies, challenges, and triumphs in shaping today's workforce. That's Crebi. Now let's jump in and get started with our next guest.

▶0:44HostWell, I'm excited to welcome Brett to the Built By People podcast. Brett, thank you so much for joining us today.

▶0:49GuestHappy to be here, James. Thanks for the invite.

▶0:51HostAbsolutely. Well, we always love to start with the question. Tell us a little bit about your career journey.

▶0:56GuestOkay, great. Um, well, my career— I've spent my entire career in the human resources space. I got a graduate degree from Brigham Young University in organizational behavior, and I spent my time in HR ever since. A lot of time mostly in the leadership and org development space. So I've worked with a number of different companies, both large and small— Micron Technology and eBay probably being some of the larger places where I've And I've also worked at some smaller places. Insight Real Estate, where I am now, has about 400 people. But I've worked at a variety of industries— high-tech, manufacturing, logistics, e-commerce. And in all those places, I feel like the intent that I try and take around my work, and I think where the career journey has been focused, is how do I create better experiences for employees? And how do I create better growth opportunities for those employees and their leaders to drive more value for the business? Whether it's, you know, regardless of where I've been, that's always been an anchor of what I try and do is try and create those cultures and those experiences that are good for employees and also great for the business. I love it.

▶1:59HostWell, so thinking about that, right, and that's always a good strategy question we like to ask. So that's something you focus on. How have you been able to accomplish some of those things in the past with some of the other organizations and potentially this organization?

▶2:13GuestThat's a big question, James, right? I think there's a lot of different pieces to it, right? I think when you think about strategy execution at the business level from the seat of HR, obviously there's a partnership and there's an alignment piece that's critical. How do we get clear around what the business really needs from a talent perspective? And then how do we build the processes to to drive that value? And how do we then put some measurements in place to actually tell the story that we're actually making progress? A few things that have helped with that over the years, I think, is I often anchor around employee engagement as a key culture metric. And so I spent a lot of time in my career, even dabbled with a startup in the employee experience space around how to measure and quantify that for organizations. And I think that's a key metric to look at. But a lot of it is really driving that alignment, getting clarity around the mission, What's the purpose of the business? And how do we translate that into the organization in clear and concise ways so employees are able to see the purpose in what they're doing on a day-to-day basis? And then how do we make sure our leaders are showing up as culture carriers, as people who really understand the customer and the dynamic of the business so they can lead their teams effectively?

▶3:32HostYeah, totally. I mean, that's one of the big things we hear a lot is just, um, from that top level, being able to disseminate the right information for everyone to actually comprehend what the goals are, what the mission is, and get that cohesiveness, which is, I think, a big portion of what you're talking about. You know, one of the things we always like to kind of ask is, you know, if I were to sit and shadow you for a week, where would I see spending time on things that maybe don't feel as strategic?

▶4:00GuestI think the challenge is being able to understand how it all fits together, but I think there are lots of opportunities to be better there. I think the things where I get stuck, where I'm doing things that aren't strategic, is— and it spreads across a variety of paths in my day-to-day work. Sometimes I'm getting pulled into talent challenges that are lower level or more individual in nature because there's a gap somewhere. And so those are some things that are challenging, I think. And it's been different by organization to organization. In one organization, I got— I spent a lot of time because there was a lot of leadership infighting. And so the leadership team wasn't very well aligned. And so that created a lot of challenge. And you could say getting that alignment within the leadership team is strategic, but it felt more like we were just dealing with a little bit of dysfunction, honestly. And so that's probably the extreme case, but there's a lot of tasks that are routine and mundane from an HR perspective. And if you don't have good systems, And if you don't have good processes, you're spending a lot of time chasing data, performing tasks that aren't highly— that aren't delivering the value they should be because they're not automated to the level that they should be. They're not streamlined. They're not simplified. And HR— and I've been guilty of this in certain instances. It's something I think I've gotten better throughout my career. But it's easy to put a process together that has a lot of non-value-added components to it. And so, I think as HR professionals, How do you meet the business in a way that those processes are as simple as they can be and still delivering the maximum value that you need from that process? And so I think understanding how to identify what the key outcomes are from the different people processes, how do we optimize that process over time? And if you're not careful, you can spend a lot of time chasing data, chasing, you know, getting boxes to be checked by managers that really aren't contributing or adding value. And so those are some areas that over time have caused me to get lost in the fray of day-to-day work and not really being able to elevate to that strategic level where you would like to be. Yeah.

▶6:11HostHas there been— I know every organization is so different— have you found that there's sometimes consistency in certain internal processes that maybe do create more friction than others or slow down a team? I know you mentioned data, right? And sometimes you get trapped in data. Have you seen something that maybe has been historic? Consistent over some of these organizations where you're like, yeah, that kind of holds true every time I go somewhere?

▶6:38GuestYeah, there are a couple. I think talent acquisition can always be a time-consuming aspect if you're overly complex in how you're screening or assessing talent. And I recognize you have to be able to bring in good talent. That's an absolute key. But that can be an area that can, if you don't, you can spend a lot of time with people who aren't great talent. And so you have to really have the screening mechanisms in place to discern learn more quickly who the top talent are. That's one. I think sometimes too, performance management, I've seen kind of shift a lot throughout my career. One of the projects that I was involved in at eBay was rebuilding their performance management approach kind of from the ground up, and that was a fantastic project. And I think a couple of things that stood out to me with that is really moving to a little bit of a team lens and building, moving to more of a growth orientation than the more historical rank-and-yank type of a philosophy from the early 2000s and before with the GE kind of the Jack Welch mentality. And I think you can, you know, if you're trying to force, you know, force your top performers into a 5% pool or a 10% pool and you're trying to make sure, hey, we have to have 10% of people in this bottom pool, I see a lot of wasted effort in trying to micromanage that forced distribution from a performance standpoint. And I think if you look a little more holistic at the impact on from a team perspective and you look at it from a growth perspective, and then you don't get caught in some of those performance management traps and you create a process that is more contributive to future growth. And really, I think that's the outcome. It's not necessarily to look back and put a stake in the ground and say, hey, because you are this level, here's, here's your salary and here's your bonus. I mean, there's, there's a piece of it that you have to check that box and you have to make sure you have some, some some consistent weightings to make sure you can make those decisions with some consistency across the organization. But the real value is how do we help the team as a whole perform better and how do we help each individual grow over time through that process? That's going to drive the ongoing continual progress of the business much more effectively over time than trying to figure out who's our bottom 5% and who's our top 5%.

▶8:54HostYeah, totally. You know, thinking of those obviously putting in these processes, is there an initiative that you've rolled out that you're like, yeah, we crushed it, right? Really proud of how we rolled that out and it worked. Has there been an experience that stands out in your mind for that?

▶9:12GuestYeah, there's been a few pockets, right? I think a lot of times the challenge for me has been, at least my experience as an HR professional is, we can bring best practice to the table, But one of the arts that we have to apply is how do we align that with the executive team, with the current circumstance of the business? So eBay is probably the most comprehensive where we really did a complete reboot of that process. And I felt like it was a comprehensive project. There were a lot of people on the team. I was a key part of that team, but there were a number of people. We worked cross-functionally across leaders and HR business partners. And so that was a great project. I think what I've taken from that is some key principles that I've been able to build in a couple of other organizations where you start setting that expectation with leaders. It's, hey, this is a conversation about growth. This is a conversation about development. And yes, there's a component around compensation that we'll cover, but get your mind right about how you're going to help drive growth and improvement across not just the individual you're meeting with, but your entire team. As a leader, you have got to use this as a way to elevate that whole team performance. Performance. And I think that mindset, um, in just in the way you, you manage your calibration conversations with the team, the way you set the expectations as you're putting the process, the documentation, the, the upfront expectations together, that, um, and I've seen that be successful in a couple of different organizations since eBay.

▶10:37HostThat's awesome. Well, okay, so actually looking at it now in that sense, where do you see the biggest opportunity to improve employee experience maybe over the next year?

▶10:49GuestAt my current company, just specifically? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the biggest opportunity— and this speaks a little bit to how they've approached the employee experience historically, and I'll give you a little bit of background— Insight Real Estate is, I think, a company that has a fantastic culture. We've got a really strong executive leadership team. They're very connected, they're very aligned strategically, they know how to win the game, and they're working very well together. The industry, for the last 3 or 4 years, with the uptick in interest rates for the residential real estate space has been a challenging market. They've managed their financials very well. They've made hard business decisions and they've acquired other companies, significant companies like peer-sized companies. And so that's created a lot of pressure on the culture. And this last year when they've done their assessment around the employee experience, I think the biggest opportunity we have is they did a survey and they had some good questions. I think the opportunity for us is to now work with our leadership team and say, you know, let's not think about individual questions. Let's think about what are the real drivers of engagement. You think about how do you really get your employees to be, to have a passion around the company, to really have that energy? How do we get them to, what is gonna cause them to put forth that extra effort and to work a little bit harder for the company? What's gonna drive that retention? And if you start thinking about it from a framework perspective and say, okay, here are some pillars that all lead to that employee experience. What are the next best steps we need to take with your team in each one of these pillars? So you're not chasing questions and you're not chasing a score on a survey. You're chasing the underlying behaviors that drive those experiences for the employees, and you're putting action into those elements of the work. And so I think working with our leaders to make sure they have a little bit better understanding of what sits underneath those questions That's what really drives that engagement mindset for the employees.

▶12:47HostYeah. Yeah. No, and honestly, it makes sense. And you kind of brought up a good point earlier around really more on the communication side, right? And I think sometimes, and this is kind of what we've heard, sometimes it's a little bit of telephone in an organization, right? You've got the agenda up here, it gets pushed down through one group, and then the group hears something a little bit different, and then all of a sudden it gets a little bit different, it gets more widespread, right? And then all of a sudden you're like, Wait, that wasn't the original intention of that message, right?

▶13:16GuestRight.

▶13:16HostSo thinking through that, right, we have seen it's become a little bit harder to communicate effectively or get the right message to employees. And so what's one area for you that, let's say even right now, to improve engagement through better communication?

▶13:34GuestYeah, when you think about communication, there are really just a handful of skills that make the biggest difference. And a couple of things. First of all, If you think about different, you can look at different studies and say, what makes a great leader? You know, some people are going to say it's empathy. Some people are going to say it's trust. Some people are going to say it's their strategic vision, right? And all of those elements of really top-notch effective leaders, there's a communication element to it, right? Because you can't be empathetic if you don't have, if you're not an active listener and asking good questions. You can't drive a strategic vision if you can't articulate, if you can't communicate that in a way that's compelling. And so communication, I often think about, is really that it's a leadership superpower in a sense that if you can develop good leadership skills, you can apply it across a series of different areas, and that allows you to drive more value. And so when you think about communication, I think the first thing is what are those underlying behaviors that matter most for communication, right? And there's just a few things, right? You have to be able to Actively listen, right? Listening is super important. You have to be— you have to demonstrate empathy for your communication. You have to be clear and brief. You have to drive that sense of adaptability in how you communicate, because not everybody you talk to is going to hear it the same way. And so as we think about communication specifically, let's introduce people so they can have a clear set of 4 or 5 best practices around communication that I just listed.? And then say, okay, maybe not best practices, but what are those principles of communication? And then for each one of those, what are the best practices that we can teach them and they can start practicing? And then the third piece is you say, okay, what are all the communication instances that you have as a leader? Well, there's one-on-ones, there's team meetings, there's all these different communication components you have. Where do you apply those different principles? How do you practice and, and put those best practices to use? And so as you help leaders understand those communication principles and best practices, then you drive the application in targeted communications, communicated activities and situations that helps elevate that skill. And the approach there, I think, is try and keep it simple. You know, two, you know, a handful of key principles, a couple of best practices for each one so they know how to accomplish it. And then you challenge them to go and practice and, and you build a culture of, of feedback and ongoing assessment so they can actually understand how they're doing.

▶16:04HostYeah, I love it. Okay, you actually brought up some really good points in that, right, on the conciseness of that, right? Thinking through the channels, right, because you did mention one-on-ones, group meetings, all hands, right, even things like that. Are there any certain channels that you have found that— it's a hard question because, right, each organization is trained a little bit differently— but are there certain channels that you found work better or timing or formats that you've maybe noticed a considerable higher engagement in some cases.

▶16:34GuestIn terms of communication channels?

▶16:37HostYeah, like, like a Slack or Teams, or is email still the right way?

▶16:42GuestYeah, yeah, good question. And I don't know if there is a right way. I think there's situational reasons to use different avenues, different channels. But it makes me think one of the leaders I worked with at eBay, he would often say that leadership manifests itself in one-to-one conversations. And so whether that's through Slack— ideally it's best in person, I think, but even a video call or something like that— I think leaders need to show up. They show up most powerfully in those one-on-one circumstances. That's how you can develop the relationship. That's how you can demonstrate the empathy. That's how you can make sure you're driving that clarity that you need one-on-one with key individuals on your team. So I'm always an advocate for, and obviously A CEO is not always going to have one-on-one conversations with everybody in the company, but where key priority work is taking place, he or she can dive in and have critical one-on-one conversations at critical points to, to make sure there's clarity, to make sure there's accountability and ownership. And any leader, I think, can take on that role. Like, who on my team needs this next conversation with me? How can I identify who that person is? And then how can I show up there in the best way? Yeah.

▶17:53HostWell, okay. So now to kind of switch gears a little bit, thinking of tech and tools, right? Things that make it easier for you to do your job. What tools, what platforms, what are like most essential would you say for you to do your job well?

▶18:08GuestYeah, I think given that we're mostly a remote team, you know, it's Slack. We're a Google Workplace, so it's Google Meet, it's Slack huddles. Those are absolutely critical. And I communicate a lot more on Slack than I do on email. There's still a place for email, but it's not as common as Slack in my particular circumstances today. Other companies, it was, you know, in the past it was much more email, but like a lot of companies and individuals kind of made that shift or transition. I'm trying to think of, you know, more unique communication medium. And this gets more into kind of an execution frame, James, but I think it's an interesting lens. I'm a, I'm a huge fan of Agile. Development and agile philosophies. And so I think having, um, Asana boards or Kanban boards or some way where work can be visualized and you have that visual component of progress with the work. Yeah. So you can— so people can see who's working on what. There's accountability, there's ownership, you can track the progress. I think a lot of those visual tools that help drive accountability to the work and help drive clarity around the work. This is the work that we're doing for the next 2 weeks. This is what we're going to accomplish and we need to have at least 95% of this work done within the next 2 weeks. So we can't, so we have to control what goes on the list, push it through, and then move it off board. So that's more of a personal preference in terms of how I manage work or how I'd like to manage work. And I think there's a whole, I mean, there's a whole nother conversation there, James, we could go into about that level. You know, you think of quarterly OKRs and aligning that around an agile sprint, you know, an agile process around Quarterly back, you know, quarterly planning, retrospectives and backlog grooming and sprint planning, all that stuff. And there's, that's probably for another podcast.

▶20:02HostHey, you're speaking to the right crowd here. I, I'm a visual person myself. So yes, I'm in the same boat, Asana, having the task, being able to see who's owning what and then watching it move through those channels or to the finish line.

▶20:14GuestRight.

▶20:14HostI think it becomes a lot easier to be able to track versus here's the Slack update of where I'm at personally.

▶20:19GuestThat's me. Yep, I'm on board with it.

▶20:23HostSo, all right, looking, looking to the future, right? You know, if we were to sit down again in 12 months from now, what would you hope has changed most in your org?

▶20:31GuestWell, hopefully our market has changed so that, uh, we, we grow as the transactions in the residential real estate happen. And so obviously going in year 4 of a down market, we're hopeful that we can see some turn there, and that just makes work better. As I think more specifically from a people perspective, we've got some pretty significant initiatives around leadership development development and employee experience, employee brand. And so, I would love to be able to share in a month like, hey, as we've built out our manager's dashboards or manager effectiveness scorecards, we've seen this type of an increase on average as we pushed and helped our leaders go through a series of development experiences throughout the year. We've seen this type of an increase on our employee engagement score. We've seen this type of a lift on our Glassdoor score. Those are the things that we're driving. And that's what we hope to accomplish this year.

▶21:24HostI love it, right? Because I mean, those are all trackable items, which are great to be able to see. So I think that's amazing. Well, this is my last question. What parting advice would you give to leaders that are trying to navigate obviously a lot of rapid changes and rising employee expectations? What would you like to share with them as parting advice?

▶21:46GuestGreat question. I think do it as a team., right? I'm a strong believer of high-performing teams, and sometimes as a leader you, you might feel like you're alone or you're stuck. And I think as you look at your direct team and as you look at your co-team, right, so you report, you know, if you're on the executive team, look in that executive team, your direct reports, how can you play and work together, right? So that you can build— you're a great teammate for your core team, if you will, you're a tremendous leader for your direct team, and because of that, they're all working collectively with you. And so I feel like if it gets really heavy and hard when you feel like you don't have those relationships and that partnership that drives the success above and beyond what you're able to do yourself. I think as soon as you, if you can drive that from a team perspective, I think the role is a lot more fun.

▶22:37HostYeah, I love it. Putting everything back to a team, having that support. So I love it. Well, Brett, thank you so much for joining us today on the Built By People Podcast. It's been a pleasure having you, and thanks for the advice to the— everyone listening.

▶22:50GuestHappy to be here, James. It's been a great conversation, so thanks for the questions. Appreciate it.