Bob Lockett
Former Chief People Officer
CAE
Episode 310
Stop 'taking care' of employees: Scientifically link HR to financial outcomes.
Current chapter: Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built By PeopleFebruary 7, 2025 · 21:40
Thesis
“HR leaders must adopt a scientific, data-driven approach to solve business challenges, consistently linking HR efforts to financial outcomes, and strategically influencing leaders rather than solely managing employee issues. This requires continuous learning, risk-taking, and a resilient mindset.”
Show notes
Bob Lockett applied fantasy football logic to a customer service problem at Harrah's Casino — and it worked. That experiment became one of his most instructive case studies: you can use a hypothesis, gather observable data, test an intervention, measure the outcome, and change behavior at scale. The scientific method works in HR. Most HR functions just haven't tried it seriously.
A West Point graduate and former military officer, Bob brings a discipline to people analytics that cuts through the noise of HR trend-following. His framework: every HR initiative should start with a clear mission statement and a definition of what success looks like — measured in terms the business cares about. "I always believe that everyone in HR should know what the mission is and how we are going to define success. And if you can't define it, you shouldn't be doing it." That's a harder standard than most HR functions hold themselves to, and it's why so many well-intentioned programs generate activity without outcomes.
Bob is particularly sharp on the HR Business Partner role — and the mistake that most HRBPs make. They focus on influencing employees when the real leverage is in influencing leaders. A leader who becomes more effective multiplies their impact across everyone they manage. Bob has also thought deeply about the grit required for a long career in HR: decisions made with incomplete information, course corrections, and the ability to move forward without second-guessing yourself into paralysis. The West Point formation, he says, gave him that — along with a deep respect for simplicity, clarity of intent, and the discipline of not overcomplicating what the moment actually requires.
- The scientific method in HR — forming hypotheses, gathering data, testing interventions, and measuring outcomes like a researcher, not a practitioner
- Defining success before you start — why HR initiatives without measurable definitions of success are programs, not strategies
- HR metrics tied to financial outcomes — connecting people data to the numbers that actually drive business decisions
- Influencing leaders, not just employees — why HRBP leverage multiplies when focused on making managers more effective
- Grit and resilience as career infrastructure — how to move forward from decisions without second-guessing, and why that matters more than perfect information
- Lessons from West Point and military leadership — simplicity, clarity of intent, and the discipline of executing under uncertainty
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What you'll take away
- 1Implement a 'scientific method' in HR by forming hypotheses, gathering data, analyzing, and making recommendations to solve complex problems.
- 2Prioritize HR metrics that demonstrate direct causal or correlational relationships to making or saving money for the business, moving beyond traditional HR-specific measures.
- 3HR Business Partners should focus on influencing leaders to be more effective, recognizing the multiplicative impact this has across the organization, rather than solely 'taking care of employees'.
- 4Cultivate grit and a learning mindset, embracing risks and moving forward from decisions without second-guessing, understanding that not every choice will be perfect.
- 5Simplify HR mission statements (e.g., attract, develop, and retain talent) and ensure leaders clearly communicate their 'intent' to align the organization and empower team members.
What most organizations get wrong
- •Many organizations think about the role of the HR business partner as Oh, they're responsible for taking care of the employees. No, that's not the case. The model has always been about how do I work, have an, as an HR business partner, work with the leaders who, if I can influence them and can help them become more effective leaders, then they have this multiplicative effect.
- •HR is a cost center. It's always lovely when HR figures out a way to generate revenue. That's always a great thing to see. But by and large, you're not put in that position to do that. But it's important to think about it. How does what we do connect back to the business to help the organization? Either make money or save money.
In Bob's words
“I always believe that everyone in HR should know what the mission is and how we are going to define success. And if you can do those things, people can rally behind those ideas and that concept of, I know what I'm, I'm supposed to do.”
Emphasizes the importance of clear, simple mission statements for HR teams to foster alignment and empowerment.
“The best metrics that I've seen often tie back to the business. If you're helping the business either make money or save money, and you can make the causal or correlational relationship With doing those two things, I think it's really important.”
Highlights the critical need for HR metrics to demonstrate tangible business value, beyond traditional HR-specific measures.
“The language of business is about data and numbers. They get it. But the important thing is you've got to go to the storyline behind it to really have an impact on how the organization thinks about that information.”
Stresses that raw data alone is insufficient; HR leaders must craft compelling narratives to make data resonate with business leaders.
“One of the things that you learn is once the round is out of the tube, you don't go back. You can't see it. And so many of us spend our times second-guessing our decisions... Learn from it, move on.”
Encourages a forward-looking, resilient mindset, urging leaders to learn from past decisions rather than dwelling on them.
“My charge and mandate is about influencing leaders to make better business choices, help them with talent, help them understand, know, the decisions that they make and the second and third order effects of that as well.”
Clearly defines the strategic role of HRBPs as consultants who guide leaders, extending beyond immediate employee concerns.
The problems this episode addresses
- •Lack of effective strategies to engage all employees (front and back office) in driving key business outcomes like customer service scores.
- •HR leaders struggling to translate data into actionable insights and compelling business narratives, diminishing their strategic impact.
- •The challenge of establishing HR metrics that directly demonstrate financial value (making/saving money) for the organization.
- •Misconceptions about the HR Business Partner role, leading to an overemphasis on reactive employee issues rather than proactive leadership influence.
- •Leaders dwelling on past mistakes or failing to clearly articulate their intent, leading to organizational misalignment and hesitation.
In this episode
Built by People podcast features insights from world's top HR leaders
Built by People
Bob Anderson shares a little bit more about his career journey
Top Executives: Taking risks in your career
Using the scientific method can help HR leaders solve complex business challenges
Employee Experience: Using the Scientific Method
Bob Miller created a fantasy football league to help improve customer service scores
Bob the Franchise: Fantasy Football
How can HR professionals better position themselves as true business partners by leveraging data
What Should HR Professionals Measure? (Data & Quality)
HR leaders make mistakes when trying to implement data-driven decision-making
What's the Biggest MISTAKES in Data-
How has the role of an HR business partner evolved throughout your career
WSJD Live: The Role of the HR Business Partner
How has your academic background tied with your military experience shape your career
How Learning From West Point Helped Shape Your Career
Keeping it simple is key when putting together HR vision or mission statements
HR Vision and Mission Statements
Patrick: Bob, thanks for joining us on Built By People podcast
Bob Krupa on Built By People
Topics covered
Organizations and entities mentioned
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