Episode 126 · March 20, 2025 · 17:08
Nathan Brisby
Chief People Officer, Institute for Integrative Nutrition
Why Your Company's Wellness Strategy Is Missing Its Soul: The Spiritual Imperative
Episode 126 · March 20, 2025 · 17:08
Why Your Company's Wellness Strategy Is Missing Its Soul: The Spiritual Imperative
Key moments
In Nathan's words
“To me, the saddest thing about the workplace is that when we show up for work, more times than not, we leave some part of ourselves outside of the door.”
“If your wellness program doesn't include access to free supportive health coaching, I can pretty well say your wellness program isn't going to make much of a change.”
“My personal executive coach keeps reminding me that every time I hear someone say KPI, I should actually reinterpret it as a key purpose indicator.”
Transcript
Read the transcript2,884 words
IntroWelcome to the Built by People podcast, where we share the stories and insights of the world's top HR leaders. Join us as we dive deep into the minds of HR executives, uncovering their strategies, challenges, and triumphs in shaping today's workforce. I'm excited to welcome Nathan to the Built By People podcast.
SpeakerNathan, thank you so much for joining us. And as a starting question, I always love to ask if you could share a little bit more about your career journey.
GuestSure. First off, thanks for having me today. Appreciate it.
HostI think my career journey's been really interesting because I actually started my career after I graduated with a master's degree in rhetoric. I became an actor and my journey since then hasn't really been linear.
GuestAnd I think for some people who
Hostshare a nonlinear path, we often find it's difficult to tell our stories, but I actually think that there's significant value
Guestto having a diverse set of experiences. It helps us be able to navigate
Hosthuman behavior more fluently. It helps us understand the emotions that
Guestare associated with different career paths.
HostAnd in my particular experience as an actor, that all definitely— understanding human behavior
Guestand emotions is a big piece of
Hostit, but also the power of storytelling to shape meaning.
GuestThat becomes a really big piece.
HostBut learning to be an actor also
Guesttaught me how to get quiet, how to listen deeply, how to read between the lines for meaning and help people feel seen and heard.
HostSo all of those things really inform what I do regularly. But in terms of my own journey, when I was thinking, when my acting career was starting to wind down, I was really thinking about the essence of what I loved. And I realized that the deepest part of me was interested in helping people find ways to harness the potential of the human spirit. And to me, that potential gets grossly
Guestuntapped in the workplace. To me, the saddest thing about the
Hostworkplace is that when we show up for work, more times than not, we
Guestleave some part of ourselves outside of the door.
HostAnd some days it could be a huge part of our identity.
GuestI think about the experience of people that are gender fluid or transgender who are not comfortable being out at work.
HostOther days it may be a small
Guestgrief that we're experiencing, like one of my employees who recently shared with me that she was just feeling a little bit sad about a roommate who recently moved out.
HostAnd it's just those sorts of things that just distract us from the work, but also keep us from being fully
Guesthuman in the work. Regardless of the size of what gets left at home or outside of the workplace, the result is that person's not fully present.
HostOrganizations then don't get to harness and
Guestharvest the gifts of the experience of grief.
HostAnd that realization really led me to
GuestHR where I can use my skills to help support people thrive in workplace cultures. Where we can make really impactful change by helping people experience that they can truly belong.
HostAnd that to me is the foundation
Guestof what I think workplace wellness means,
Hostis that you get to fully belong.
SpeakerNathan, how does your experience at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition shape your perspective on workplace wellness? And what does a truly holistic approach to wellness look like through your lens?
HostYeah. At IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, for those who don't know the organization,
Guestwe train health coaches, the people that help with behavior change that's associated with holistic health.
HostWe believe that wellness isn't just about things like nutrition.
GuestIt's about the whole person.
HostAnd that philosophy to me is my
Guestapproach to workplace wellness. So a truly holistic approach recognizes that employees are more than their job titles. They're complex individuals. They have unique needs. They have unique experiences of stress.
HostThey have unique dreams and aspirations. And so when we're designing workplace wellness, we have to go beyond these traditional
Guestbenefits like gym memberships and step challenges.
HostWe have to include holistic mental health
Guestsupport, work-life balances for folks that are, especially for folks that are working high stress.
HostWe gotta think about financial wellness.
GuestWe have to think about personal growth opportunities, spirituality. Experiences really that help us foster connection and purpose.
HostAnd we're looking for that multidimensional approach. I really feel like when organizations build a multidimensional approach, we honor the multidimensionality
Guestof what it means to be human.
HostAnd we're able to show up to work feeling like we have a sense
Guestof how our whole selves belong.
HostAnd maybe I also want to specifically
Guestjust call out something about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition.
HostThat's really been driving this home for
Guestme over my tenure there is that there's a big missing piece of our current healthcare system, which is the support for behavior change.
HostSo the medical system does a great
Guestjob at responding to the health crisis, but it's really insufficient at preventing health crisis.
HostAnd one of the reasons I think for this is that doctors don't know anything about nutrition. The National Academy of Sciences suggests that a good, healthy medical training should include
Guesta minimum of 25 hours of nutrition education.
HostAnd right now, less than 8% of
Guestmedical students report having even 20 hours of instruction in nutrition.
HostIt's just not a part of our
Guestmedical system in the US.
HostAnd that means that most doctors aren't better at giving nutrition advice other than
Guestjust saying eat less, exercise more.
HostAnd even if they knew that answer,
Guestknowing the answer is different from being able to empower someone to do something different.
HostAnd so health coaches, from my perspective,
Guestare a missing piece of wellness.
HostAnd at IIN, we train the best
Guestof the health coaches, and health coaches are experts at supporting behavior change over time.
HostAnd they do that by building supportive relationships with clients, and that relationship becomes
Guestthe foundation of meaningful change for people.
HostAnd so I would say to anyone
Guestwho's listening now, who's in charge of
Hostdesigning a wellness program, If your wellness program doesn't include access to free supportive
Guesthealth coaching, I can pretty well say your wellness program isn't going to make much of a change and you should
Hostreach out to someone so that they
Guestcan connect you with options. Feel free to reach out to me if that's fine.
SpeakerNathan, you've spoken at conferences about spirituality at work. Can you share some specific examples of how organizations can create space for employees' spiritual identities while maintaining professional boundaries?
GuestYes, this is my favorite thing to talk about. So thanks for asking the question.
HostSpirituality at work doesn't have to mean religion.
GuestIt's about creating space for meaning and purpose and connection. And so some organizations do this by offering meditation or mindfulness sessions.
HostSome create quiet rooms for reflection or spiritual practices like ritual and prayer, or some more forward-thinking organizations are actually integrating
Guesttheir business practices with spiritual perspectives.
HostSo this, this is things like encouraging
Guestemployees to bring their personal values into goal-setting conversations.
HostBut it can also look— there's so
Guestmany novel ways to do this.
HostThings that I've done is having a
Guestminute of silence in a meeting before a big decision gets finalized.
HostSo we know we're going to make this big decision.
GuestBefore we all actually say yes, let's just take a minute of silence.
HostOr another thing that I've done is we're going to ring a bell.
GuestIt's 3 PM in the office for
Hosteveryone to stop work because we've all
Guestbeen going so fast.
HostWe're going to stop and we're just
Guestgoing to come to a complete rest for 1 minute and just be.
HostThere's so many simple ways that it's not distracting to the work.
GuestIt actually helps to pace out the work and we've found that these sorts of rest moments are actually really meaningful to achieve work ends.
HostBut it can also show up in things like the way that we measure success. To me, this is one of my big ones recently.
GuestMy personal executive coach keeps reminding me that every time I hear someone say
HostKPI, I should actually reinterpret it as
Guesta key purpose indicator.
HostSo we can't rightfully measure our true
Guestimpact with these like old school myopic MBA ways of thinking.
HostSo as important as things like LTV
Guestand AOV and ROAS are, we have to expand our vision.
HostAnd I'm not advocating for dropping those measurements.
GuestI'm advocating for something that's more holistic, more human.
HostWe need to imagine measurements like the
Guestnumber of lives that are impacted, our community outreach and engagement numbers, levels of
Hostinnovation that are driven as a result
Guestof the company's purpose.
HostEmployee purpose engagement scores, charitable giving amounts quarter over quarter, theory of change application and accomplishment percentages, things like that, that
Guestare actually driving purpose.
HostThey're actually a better indicator of the
Guestsuccess of the organization long-term.
HostAnd so I just feel like those are the things that we're going to evolve into eventually as we start to
Guestrealize the limitations of some of our current ways of thinking.
HostBut maybe one last thing to say here. About spirituality is that a big piece
Guestof it is being inclusive as a leader.
HostSo making sure that your people and especially your managers are trained with, trained
Guestto respect and include diverse perspectives, whether that's through flexible time off policies, encouraging open dialogue in a way that respects everyone's beliefs. But we want to foster an environment where people feel safe to express what matters to them and what's important to them. And that often means slowing down. Slowing the pace of businesses that are moving too fast. There's a teacher, Parker Palmer, who I think said it well. The soul is like a wild animal.
HostIt's tough, it's resilient, it's savvy, self-sufficient, and exceedingly shy.
GuestAnd so if we wanted to show up, we can't go crashing through the woods shouting for the creature to come out. But if we can sit for an hour or two at the base of a tree, it will come out.
HostAnd I think that's true when we
Gueststart to think about these workplace interventions that invite spirituality to come in. We can't go crashing through the woods. We've got to just make some space to be quiet.
SpeakerNathan, how do you see the connection between employee engagement, behavior change, and medical benefits playing out in successful wellness programs?
HostYeah, I spoke a little bit about this already, but maybe I'll share an
Guestadditional piece of the puzzle as I see it.
HostOur wellness program focuses always on supporting behavior change. So when employees feel engaged in their
Guestwork and supported in their personal wellbeing, they're more likely to adopt healthy behaviors that improve their overall quality of life.
HostAnd if that happens habitually, it ripples
Guestout and it becomes culture.
HostSo any program that helps make a
Guestbridge between awareness and action is a really great start.
HostSo preventive care incentives, health coaching, those
Guestare really good examples of behavior change,
Hostbut successful programs need measurement.
GuestAnd so I always have a bias toward measuring the intended behavior change.
HostFor example, if a company offers mental health resources, but doesn't create a culture
Guestwhere it's okay to use them, employees are not going to engage.
HostSo that's one of those moments where
GuestI'm encouraging leaders to actively participate, share their own experiences, actively reinforce that wellbeing
Hostis a priority and When that happens,
Guestemployees naturally feel encouraged to take advantage of the resources.
SpeakerNathan, what are some common misconceptions about workplace wellness that you've encountered and how do you address them?
HostYeah, the first one is pervasive.
GuestThere's probably two major misconceptions. The first one is that wellness programs are nice to have and not a strategic imperative. Very few CEOs that I talk to would put a wellness program even in their top 20 list of priorities.
HostIt's even low on the list for people that administer benefits, but the evidence, I think, tells a very different story.
GuestSo research has found that employees who
Hostparticipate in even a basic wellness program
Guestexperience a 25% decrease in absenteeism, a
Host30% increase in productivity. That doesn't even touch the, the lowered
Guesthealthcare costs, which is always a result
Hostof a wellness program, but Another study found that all employees who participated in a wellness program improved their productivity in an average of 1 full workday a month. So you can get an additional workday
Guestout of everyone that works for you if you've got a wellness program.
HostLike, this is a strategic imperative, but
Guestmore importantly to me, it actually honors our human need for wellness.
HostSo the second myth maybe that I'd
Guestshare is that wellness is just about physical health. Fitness is important, but true wellness includes mental, emotional, spiritual, financial wellbeing.
HostAnd the best way I think to
Guestaddress any of these misconceptions is just
Hostshare this data and share the real
Guesthuman stories of how workplace wellness transforms people's lives.
SpeakerFrom your experience, what role should CEOs and HR leaders play in championing workplace wellness initiatives?
HostYeah, I mean, CEOs and HR leaders,
Guestlike most topics, they set the tone.
HostSo when leaders support wellness by participating
Guestin the programs, by normalizing the conversation, by ensuring that policies align with wellbeing, it signals to everyone that it's a priority.
HostAnd so leaders need to model healthy behaviors themselves, like setting boundaries around work
Guesthours or taking appropriate time off so employees feel permission to do the same.
HostHR in particular needs to ensure wellness
Guestis embedded into the company culture, not just as a happy add-on, but a strategic imperative.
HostSo that means integrating wellbeing into leadership training, performance reviews, making sure that it's
Guesta business strategy so that it becomes part of the organizational DNA.
HostAnd we should be advocating for those
Guestregular reviews that include key purpose indicators as well.
HostI, I think I also want to add an important nuance about how to do this. I've seen a lot of leaders miss
Guestthe mark here when they pretend that wellness is about driving productivity.
HostI've heard leaders say that we should build wellness programs so we can drive results.
GuestAnd that's not an honest expression of the truth.
HostWhat happens is that when employees hear that, they hear that they should be working more, and that makes them feel
Guestmanipulated and not honored.
HostSo if we want to honor what
Guestit means to be human, we need to make wellness a first condition. A first priority.
HostSo we prioritize wellness because it's our
Guestbirthright as a citizen of humanity.
HostWe don't do wellness so that we
Guestcan work harder or work better, and
Hostthat may end up happening, and the
Guestevidence shows that it will, but it's not the true answer to why.
HostAnd so I think if we're trying
Guestto develop authentic relationship with our employees, it's important that we make that wellness a first condition.
SpeakerNathan, what parting advice would you like to share with our community?
HostYeah, first I'd say wellness isn't a one-size-fits-all. It should change based on the needs
Guestof your unique set of employees. And it's, it's hugely important to also
Hostsay that small changes can make a big impact. So try something small, see what happens. I remember when I was first starting to integrate spirituality at work, I led this large meeting on a particularly thorny,
Guestdifficult topic, and I was really nervous about it.
HostI chose to start the meeting by
Guestinviting everyone to take 2 intentional shared breaths.
HostAnd that, just doing that was very countercultural.
GuestYou could almost hear people fidget with the weirdness of me asking them to
Hostdo that, because this was not a warm fuzzy kind of workplace. But I did that as a small
Guestthing, 2 shared breaths as a kickoff to this meeting. And that was over 10 years ago.
HostAnd I still have people from that
Guestcompany writing me on LinkedIn, sharing about how that impacted them.
HostSo those small things make a big impact. So whether you're a leader or an employee, start where you are, really lean into this, like crawl, then walk, then run. And as one of my mentors shared
Guestwith me recently, she said, don't forget
Hostthat none of us would have learned
Guestto walk if people chastised us every time we fell.
HostIn fact, most of the time when we're learning to walk, We fell down
Guestand people made it into a game.
HostThey would say, whoopsie, fell. And that's a model for how we
Guestcan relate to our work failures when we're learning something for the first time. So don't be afraid to take that first step, even if it ends up in a whoopsie.
SpeakerNathan, thank you so much for joining us on the Built by People podcast. It was a pleasure to have you involved.
GuestThank you. Appreciate it.
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