Stop Blaming Employees: Self-Aware Managers Drive True Growth

Welcome to the Built by People podcast, where we share the stories and insights of the world's top HR leaders. Join us as we dive deep into the minds of HR executives, uncovering their strategies, challenges, and triumphs in shaping today's workforce. I'm excited to welcome Bernard to the Built by People podcast. Bernard, thank you so much for joining us. And as a starting question, I always love to ask if you could share a little bit more about your career journey.

Yeah, my career journey has been interesting. I like to think that I sit at the intersection of people, tech, and policy. So the arc of my career, I started at this place called the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee because my goal was to try to be as helpful as possible at scale. So working for the Democratic Party was one of those things that I thought was— that's an effective way of doing it. So the— for those who don't know, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, otherwise known as the DCCC, elects Democrats to the House of Representatives. So I did that for a few years and I worked for a congressman, and then I went to go work at SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. And I was like, I really like HR. I think this is what I want to do.. And so that was about 20 years ago. And that took me to, with that intersection of HR and policy, I went to go work at the Democratic National Committee when Obama became president. So that was very exciting for me because I got to do politics and HR work. And then went to go work for Hillary Clinton on her presidential campaign, leading diversity and HR. And then my foray into tech, I went to go work at Uber about, wow, it's about 9 years ago. At this point. And from there, I went to go work at this place called Gusto, which is a wonderful company. I think most folks know it, helping small businesses win. And now I'm at a place called Swing Education, which is the penultimate of all the things. It's education, enabling schools and subs to find— subs to find meaningful work, and then subs and schools to find great quality subs. What's great about that is I have 3 daughters who are all in school. My wife's a school board member, so it's like the perfect connection of all those things. But that's my arc, figuring out how I can be helpful in all those different places.

Murdaugh, can you tell us about a time when you had to make a difficult decision between coaching or letting go of an employee? What was your thought process and how did you handle it?

I think it's a matter of skill and will because coaching obviously requires an investment. But I think when you're coaching someone, they also have to be invested. And if they aren't invested in their growth, if they aren't willing to be open to feedback, then I think that's where it becomes like the fork in the road. And so, I think when you have those situations and that person is not capable of having the skill, the will, then I think that's when it becomes a cut because maybe they need to go somewhere else where it's better aligned to what they want to do, where they want to go with their profession, where they want to go with their career. And at the same time, you have to be, as a manager, do I have the time to commit to that if this person is unwilling? So it's a hard decision. I think if people enjoy cutting people, I think you're in the wrong job. But I think it's important because I think it's not a productive use of anybody's time if you're somewhere you don't want to be.

How does a leader effectively distinguish between when an employee's performance issues stem from their own limitations versus potential management shortcomings?

I think the thing that I see that's lacking in many managers is self-awareness. So, if you're not self-aware about who you are, it could be you very well not communicating well with your team. So, I'll put it in perspective. Let's say you're a manager and every team you're on, your team does very poorly. So, no matter what company, no matter what team, their team does poorly, the main factor is you, right? So, you have to, you can't ignore those facts and say, is it possibly me that's the destructive force here? Or maybe I need to work on my managerial skills. So, I think a lot of introspection and self-awareness is important. Understanding your patterns over your career, because as leaders, we're always trying to become, I would assume, better, right? I think we all want to be effective leaders. And if you see patterns within yourself, if you aren't willing to correct it, then maybe it is you and not so much your team, right? Because you're looking at your team's patterns, how they show up, and how you show up. And if you see those distinguishing factors, if it's you, then I would say get a leadership coach, read up some leadership books, But get reflective because the goal is to have impact, and you're negatively impacting that possibility if you are a poor leader. So it's a two-sided coin.

Bernard, when was a time you successfully turned around a challenging employee situation through coaching? Can you walk us through your approach and some of the key lessons learned?

Yeah, I think the— one of the most challenging, I had this person who I would say is a dark cloud person. They had a perspective that would bring the whole team down just by their minds. And it was really me saying, and I remember when I hired this person, I said, I'm willing to commit, 'cause they were an early career person. I said, I'm willing to commit more time to this person so that way they can grow in the way they needed to grow. 'Cause they were, this person was freshly outta college, I think maybe within a year. And so I already knew and I had the mindset of I'm gonna help them get to where they need to go. So that meant spending more time with them. Providing more and deeper feedback, if you will, so that way they could be successful. And that helped them turn it around. And then also, I remember then this person had the opportunity to transfer to another department temporarily. I said, I think that'll help you in your growth. And they took the lessons that I helped impart with them and discussed with them, and they were an entirely different employee for that team. And when they came back to my team, it was like a total 180. They were just They were just amazing. So I think it's really just, as a manager, you have to have the mindset like, am I willing, am I committed to helping this person? And then also, if they have the skill and the will, it could be very possible. The question is, how much time do you have? The criticality of time to whatever you need to get done. But if you have the time, I think it's worthwhile, because I think if the inverse occurred, we'd all want a manager where they invested in you, they gave you this coaching, and they wanted to see you win. I think that means a lot to a lot of folks, because I think When I was in that position, I loved it and I grew immensely.

Bernard, how do you build the confidence and skill set to deliver difficult feedback effectively, especially for new managers who might be tempted to coddle instead?

Yeah, I think that's a real problem. I think a lot of people coddle, otherwise they're kicking the can down the road just because it's difficult. No one wants to say something or have that feeling of awkwardness because you're gonna have to work with this person if you're not If they're not leaving the team, you're gonna have to work with them day in and day out. So, I think, how do you make it in a way that's constructive so that way they receive it? And so, I think, first of all, it's about the repetitiveness of one-to-ones. Like, in one-to-ones, that's where if someone's getting off the beaten path, that's your opportunity to course correct. Sometimes I think people, because they're afraid to give feedback, they let too much time go in between. So, let's say you have performance reviews twice a year, and I wait for each of those performance reviews to just unload on that person. I think that's highly ineffective. I think if you're having consistent one-to-ones, you're giving them directional, you're helping them with the direction of where they should be going, what they should be thinking about, and that approach. And that way, they are not surprised by any feedback you've given them because you've been giving them that constantly. It's codified in the performance review where you said, I think working on these 3 things will help you immensely. When you did X, Y, and Z, this is the outcome that I saw. And I think if we do this, this will get you even better results, but it's really just basically repetition. Practice makes perfect. And I think even when back in the day when I was in college, I was on the track team, right? You needed feedback from your coach if you want to improve your technique. I was a thrower. I used to throw shot put and discus. But you're critiquing your throws, you're getting feedback from your coach. You can't go 6 months and get feedback. You're not going to see the improvement. So the same thing applies to leadership. It's constant conversation, constant tweaks, iterations to help you get to where you need to go.

Rodar, what parting advice would you like to share with our community?

I think the parting advice is, I talked a little bit about self-awareness, whether you're a manager, an individual contributor, the CEO, I think being self-aware and understanding your patterns, because it's hard to work on others or contribute to others and their success if you don't know what your blockers are and also what your strengths are. And I think when you can do that, you can marshal your, those resources within yourself to better help your team, to better help yourself, and better help the company. So I think self-awareness is key. I think a lot of folks, when they employ that, they become the best leaders, the best individual contributors, and just— it works on both the personal and professional level. But I think it can dramatically improve your life if you know yourself.

Bernard, thanks so much for joining us today on the Built by People podcast. It was a pleasure to have you involved.

Thank you. Likewise. I love this experience.