Andrea Brunet

▶0:00HostWelcome to the Built by People podcast, where we share the stories and insights of the world's top HR leaders. Join us as we dive deep into the minds of HR executives, uncovering their strategies, challenges, and triumphs in shaping today's workforce. I'm excited to welcome Andrea to the Built by People Podcast. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us. And as a starting question, I always love to ask if you could share a little bit more about your career journey.

▶0:48GuestAbsolutely. Thanks for having me today, Dave. It's wonderful to meet with you. My career journey started out in the insurance claims industry. Industry. So I was a claims adjuster and I handled car claims, dog bites, slip and falls. That was predominantly what my job was. I had some workers' compensation claims as well, and that was actually what helped me pivot my career into human resources. And I worked as a claims adjuster. I grew my career and I became a supervisor and I had 5 direct reports. And that was where I realized my passion was working with people, leading people. Helping them grow their careers as well. So when someone that I knew both professionally and personally had an opportunity where it was a human resources supervisor role became open, but the organization needed severe help with their workers' compensation claim program, it was spiraling out of control. Essentially, people were filing claims for paper cuts. And it sounds like an exaggeration, but you can probably imagine what their insurance premiums were doing, they were very high, and he thought that I might be a great fit. That was almost 20 years ago, and I haven't looked back and have had the tremendous privilege of growing in my human resources capacity, working on projects, working in different arenas— employee relations, performance management, compliance, workers' compensation, leaves of absences— and it's just been terrific.

▶2:16HostYou've spoken about workplace compliance and creating a safe environment for employees. What are some key strategies HR leaders can implement to prevent wrongful termination claims and EEOC complaints before they arise?

▶2:31GuestThank you. Yeah, there's, there's a number of things as an HR professional that can be done. I think really consistency, being consistent with workplace policies, ensuring that local, federal, state laws are all upheld. And behaving in a manner where HR is a true partner to other lines of business. Before I worked in human resources, I worked in the insurance claims capacity. So I didn't know a whole lot about human resources until I started to know people that worked in the field. And I've worked for organizations where everyone knew HR because HR was truly a partner, had a seat at the proverbial table, and was trusted. I've also worked for organizations where HR was not looked upon favorably. And I'm bringing up the old show, The Office. If you were a fan, you may or may not remember Toby. And Toby was main character Michael Scott's nemesis, and he insulted him. You know, I've worked for companies where that was the tone, and I vowed that once I moved— had a lot of negative things to say about HR— and into an HR role, I would do everything in my power to be a true partner and to help build that trust and to be someone that employees felt that they could come to One of the questions that comes up in HR is, who do you work for? Do you support the company or the people? Well, the answer truly is both, because the people are what comprises the company. The company won't function without people. So of course, it is a means of helping the business be successful, but that also entails supporting people, making sure the right people are in the right positions, and of course, ensuring that we are compliant and making sure that everyone is treated equitably with regard to company policies. So those are a few things that I do to focus on making sure that compliance is in place.

▶4:16HostYou had an impactful experience with one of your leaders during your marathon training. How has that shaped your approach to leadership and workplace flexibility?

▶4:25GuestOh, yes. And that was— so this was a long time ago. I was training for the New York Marathon when I was still living on the East Coast in New Jersey. And the— it was the time of year where it was starting to get dark early in the evening and to go out and do a long run outdoors really wasn't safe at that point. So I would work out on the treadmill at work. I was also going to graduate school at the time. And I look back now and say, I'm not sure when I slept. That was my life. So working out at lunch was what worked best for me. And I was on the treadmill one day with the goal of running 7 miles during my lunch break, getting off the treadmill, taking a shower, and returning to work looking somewhat composed. And I must have had a look of panic on my face because I realized I had been on the treadmill for over an hour at that point. The director of our department walked in, and he saw the look on my face, and I— was getting off the treadmill, and he said, why do you look so stressed? Was that your workout? And I said, no, I'm late getting back from lunch. And he looked at me and he said, this is your time. He said, you're salaried. He said, I know you're training for a race. He said, if you need to be down here for an hour and a half, I know you get the work done. You're true to your word. I see you. You're always engaged in your work. I want you to make this time for you. I know how important this is. Dave, this was so empowering to hear this because I felt, okay, I'm not going to get in trouble. But just feeling empowered to focus on my own health because I knew that if I was mentally and physically healthy, it would make me a better employee too because now I feel that I'm less stressed and I'm achieving my personal goals, which makes me feel more motivated. And what he said to me, I already respected and trusted him, but it really emphasized the trust and respect I had for this individual that he said, people need to focus on themselves. It's not always— I mean, work is a priority, but you can't be completely successful if you're not treating yourself well too. And that's something that I have taken as a leader, as an employee, but really make sure that your team is taking care of themselves. If I've had a direct report and they said, I'm going to be late today, I have to take my child to school, or I have a parent-teacher conference, or I have a doctor appointment, whatever it is, it's okay. You get here when you get here. With hourly employees, sometimes they have to take— apply paid time off to make sure they're getting their full pay. With salaried employees, I can't tell you how many times I've reminded people, you get paid for the job done, not the specific number of hours. Because I can say with confidence, most people work more than 40 hours, especially when they're salaried, versus working less than 40 hours. So if you're going to be late, maybe you need to work out in the morning and you're running late now, or maybe you have something personal going on. We all need to have that work-life balance. And I think that when we lead with that type of example, when employees see leaders take care of themselves and they are allowed and empowered to do so for themselves, they are that much more engaged. I know I certainly have been. And that's something that I believe in leading my own teams, but also when I partner with leaders, let's make sure that we're focusing on the big picture here. If somebody is late because of an appointment, you know, we're not talking about somebody that's chronically late from oversleeping, but you know, the one-off, I said, let's make sure we're allowing people to have that work-life balance. And in the end, everybody benefits.

▶7:29HostEmployee burnout is obviously a significant challenge across industries. What are some specific programs or initiatives that you found most effective in addressing burnout and supporting employee wellbeing?

▶7:41GuestYou hit the nail on the head. Burnout is such a hot topic, and certainly in the HR industry, I know there's a ton of burnout. I talk to many of my peers in the industry and professional contacts that are leaving HR because of the burnout factor. And I think it happened when the pandemic hit us 5 years ago, and it's just hasn't really settled down. But any industry, any line of work can experience that. And one thing that I've with leaders, with colleagues, with direct reports is work-life balance. I know it sounds so cliché, but we really— all of us need to focus on it and to help burnout. If you just get to a point where you're exhausted, step away. Maybe it's a walk around the block. Maybe you go down the hallway, go get a cup of coffee, go say hello to somebody. But I find for myself, I step outside. I have— I'm extremely privileged in the sense where I work remotely, so I can go outside and I can go for a run during lunchtime in my neighborhood, or I could get on the treadmill. And sometimes even taking a half an hour break is so rejuvenating. And then I feel like I have fresh eyes, my mindset has reset, and then I can just go and look at what I was working on, and it really helps. The other thing too that I can't stress enough is most organizations provide paid time off. Maybe it's a bank of paid time off that you can use for sick leave or vacation, or you have a dedicated sick leave and vacation leave. Many organizations, and I know most states, companies have a use or lose with sick and vacation time. I have mixed feelings about that, but I think ultimately use it or lose it does have the benefit in a sense where it hopefully provides employees the incentive to use their time and not bank it for the proverbial rainy day. Years ago, I worked for an organization where there seemed to be a hero mentality of, I haven't taken a sick day in 10 years. Oh, I've got 6 weeks of vacation banked up because I don't take time off. I work an average of 70 hours a week. And it came— it went from the top down. So you can imagine new employees or people earlier in their careers believed that if I want to grow with this organization, this is how I need to be. And this is pre-pandemic, by the way. So there was a different mindset of coming into the office sick. But people would come in, they were coughing and wheezing and sneezing. And I would see them and say, if you're not feeling well, I know you have paid time off available. Please go home, take care of yourself. And they would look at me with horror like, no, I've got to get my work done. And my takeaway from that is that's not healthy for anybody, not from the individual who lives and breathes by that type of mindset, and nor anybody that tries to follow and emulate their footsteps thinking that this is how I need to be to grow. It's very converse to a work-life balance and to health. And I think that's the type of behavior that promotes burnout, if not illness as a result. So that's something that I really strive to do for myself. I do believe in leading by example. Take the time off. You've earned the vacation time. You've earned the sick leave. If you're not feeling well, take the time. If you need to rejuvenate, take the time off. And certainly, if your company has a policy that says you need to let us know at least 30 days ahead of time of taking time off, plan accordingly. Give them the 30 days so you can get that time off.

▶10:56HostIn your experience, how can organizations balance maintaining compliance while also fostering a culture where employees feel empowered rather than restricted?

▶11:06GuestI think the best way to go about that, in my experience, has been to ensure that employees are informed of the why. Why do we have to do it this way? One that has come up for me throughout my human resources career is an employee's on a leave of absence. They're protected under family medical leave, the federal law, or a specific state law. A leader comes to me and says, hey, this person's been out for a month. I need to replace them. Can I fire them? And of course, the resounding answer is, why do you want to fire them? Because we're short-staffed, we need to fill their role. And I'll say they're protected under family medical leave or state-specific leave. They have another 8 weeks available, so we have to hold their jobs. But what you can do is bring somebody in temporarily to sub in for them, whether internally or an external temporary, but we must hold their job for that 12-week duration. So, What I have found is having the conversation with leaders and sharing the why, because it's an opportunity for them to understand that it's not human resources throwing the book down or making their lives harder, but there's a reason why we're doing things. And I found that when I have that engagement, have the conversation, I think it builds trust on both sides where that leader now knows that their intentions weren't malicious, but really they were looking out for the business, for their own team, for the morale. But then they're also entrusting me to give them the reasoning, and it's because of the law. I am proud to say that I am trusted in the sense of understanding compliance. I'm a big HR nerd. I love staying up to date on compliance. I read the SHRM website. I participate in professional HR groups locally and on a global level. Knowledge is power. I love getting updated on laws as they change federally, locally, as they do, and then having the opportunity to share that with my peers and other leaders. So that they maintain the compliance as well. I do believe it helps foster a culture where employees are feeling empowered because we can trust one another. They also know that they can ask me questions, or they can ask me for verification. For example, my understanding is this is how this works. Is that correct? And then I can say, yes, it is, or you're partially right, or hey, let's talk about this together. I know that you don't do this every day, but let's have an opportunity to regroup and talk again. And I think that type of approach has been— extremely beneficial, I hope, for my colleagues as well as for me, because it certainly helped me feel that employees are empowered but also maintaining compliance.

▶13:37HostFrom your perspective, what's the connection between a strong employee assistance program and creating a supportive workplace culture? And how can organizations maximize the effectiveness of their EAP?

▶13:49GuestOh, the EAP, I think when organizations have an EAP,— it is such a tremendous benefit. And I've had the pleasure of working for a number of organizations, including my current one, where we have a very robust EAP. And I think what provides a supportive workplace culture with regard and in connection with an EAP is market, market. And I market the EAP to employees. It's not necessarily for I've been depressed, I need counseling service, because I think that when people think of EAP, that's the first thing that comes to mind. So I like to make sure employees are informed. And yes, those are absolutely important services and they're provided. There's financial help, there's legal advice, there's estate planning, health programs, nutrition programs, and so forth. We have a program where we'll have meetings every couple of weeks where our employee relations directors, the team that I'm on, we call it the HR happy hour. And so It's pretty clean. There's— it's not a real happy hour, so to speak, but it's an opportunity to meet with our teams, share with them employee relations and HR topics. And we do talk about the EAP at least a couple of times a year because we want to remind employees of how important it is. We have a great brochure. It's on my shortcuts on my desk, and I send that out at least a couple times a week to employees. We might start our conversation about something, and then we segue off to something else. I'll say, I'm glad we had this conversation. Let me send you the EAP just so you have it at your fingertips. Please share it with your teams as well. And I think it's tremendous. I think it helps provide the supportive workplace culture. Another thing I just wanted to add to that too is placing emphasis on the fact that it's confidential and employees don't have to reach out and ask for permission from their leadership team goes a long way. And how many times I've told employees, you don't have to ask your leadership if you want to use this. This is for you and your family. And I think especially when people are going through particularly stressful matters that maybe they don't want to talk with their boss about for whatever reason, you hear that sigh of relief. Like, OK, this is great. I have more resources. I can talk to HR, but now I can do this in confidentiality as well. So definitely a huge component, I think, of a supportive work culture.

▶16:03HostWhat parting advice would you like to share with our community?

▶16:06GuestI think what I'd love to share with the community is human resources is a partner, something that I've loved in the 20 years that I've been in the— industry, and this is for anybody who is already in HR, whether you're considering HR as a career, you're entering mid-level, or maybe end of career. What I've seen in the 20 years I've been in the industry is seeing HR gain a seat at the proverbial table. We are becoming a partner. We are trusted. But a lot of that is what we put into it as HR professionals. And I would encourage anyone who's in this field, if you're passionate about it, stick with it. If you're considering it, it's an opportunity to really get to develop relationships, but you truly get out of it what you put into it. And I believe that an HR professional has a lot of pull as far as helping motivate culture. We don't do it solely. We are one puzzle piece, but we are absolutely a part of that equation to help a company grow. Within its strategic objectives or whether it's in its culture, we are definitely a seat at the table, and I'm so grateful for that. And that's what I want to leave any HR professional with is think about how you are part of the puzzle. You have a seat at the table, keep that seat at the table, and never stop learning. Ask questions, keep yourself knowledgeable, stay current, and make sure that when you're answering questions, you're also asking questions. Help foster that trust, build those relationships with your team. I think that will absolutely help create a successful HR environment for any, anyone in the industry.

▶17:47HostThanks so much for joining us on the Built by People podcast today. It was a pleasure to have you involved.

▶17:52GuestSo much, Dave. It was a pleasure speaking with you.